News posted in November 2016

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Nov 5

  • Cas
    Feliz Cumpleaos, Alan Rotoi! :cheesy:

Nov 8

  • THC
    BE--EFF-EFF!!!
  • THC
    Current leading time is a piece of crap.
  • THC
    BFF!!! Böff reduction: 22B
  • THC
    bff!!! Böff reduction: 21B

Nov 9

  • Marco
    Ok, I finish the last 2 races :smiley:. I don't run the GAR if you don't run the GAR. It's a long circuit and requires a lot of effort. It's good for me and my eyes to keep suspended the GAR championship till the end :smiley:.
  • Marco
    Hi Ctg how are you? Last year you said that i was Mark Rivers but...he won 1 race while i won 2 races :smiley:))
  • Cas
    Hi, Marco! Amazing lap! Hey, I didn't mention here before about your NoRH replay in R4I. Did you check that already?
  • Marco
    Hi CAS, It seemed to me ok

Nov 10

  • Cas
    Yeah, it's perfect, except for one single frame. Very unlucky. It's only the exact frame at 1:02.40. In all other frames, at least one wheel is on the track.

Nov 11

  • Marco
    Omg...i have checked that point.probably i was using a different zoom level infact i noticed that with every zoom closer or farer the tires touch the track.there s only one zoom position were tires are not touching the track.it s the first time that i see something like this.very unlucky
  • Marco
    Ok Cas, I did another run, .15 better than before. Check this one, thank you
  • Cas
    Oh... I really didn't try changing the zoom! :shocked: Thanks, Marco. I'll check your new one and I'll also take a look at the zoom from this one. If this can happen other times, there must be some agreement on how to react to it in the future. Really strange.
  • THC
    fuckin' drunk CTG replay
  • Cas
    Both Marco's and FinRok's replays verified OK! :smiley: I'll remove the warning from underneath the scoreboard soon.
  • THC
    kinda bff...
  • THC
    Akoss Poo: 100 ccm alcohol challenge? :cheesy:

Nov 12

  • Alecu_RO
    With Melange XGT-88 in 3:20
  • Marco
    CTG , you were lucky that you were disqualified otherwise , an Italian guy could beat you again on the c182 and c183 as happened on the C74 :smiley:).

Nov 13

  • Marco
    Hi Cas, please check the last NORH immortality replay ...
  • Marco
    I don't know if at 0:23.45 could be valid or not
  • Cas
    Wow! Well, from my point of view, if I have to be strict, the replay is valid. You perform an accidental speed-up and almost fall off the road, but in all frames, at least one wheel is on the road (partially) in all zoom levels and you're following the line of the track. If I consider it valid to speed up on boulevards and pipe entrances, then I have to consider this one valid too. Congratulations! :smiley:
  • Marco
    Sorry CAS but in this track the speedup is surely necessary for the middle JUMP. Also on the GAR the accidentaly speedup is valid. I mean , it 's not valid to hit concrete walls or the first part of the corkscrew to speed up but general speedup on banked corners or jump are valid . Anyway on 23.45, my wheels on the default F3 vzoom are not on the grass but are one pixel out from the grey road. They are on the white and red bumps. On the GAR I never established clearly this rule but i have always run considering valid only the grey track and not other parts like red and white bumps or the white side parts of the elevated ramp placed on hill. So i want to know your rule about that. You confirm that Red and white Bumps are valid and only Grass is not valid ? And that my lap is ok ? Thank you
  • Duplode
    That is a strong NoRh time in R4I, Marco. I really should resume racing (and not only there, but here as well!). Given that the flu is making it hard for me to focus on other stuff, today might be a good opportunity... :roll eyes:
  • Marco
    It's possible to do better but it becomes harder. Anyway I'm still not sure that's valid , I'm waiting for CAS . On the banked corner before the loop I was falling out of the road , my tires remained on the grey track except on 23.45 where the original F3 zoom say that my tires are on the red and white part of the banked . Changing or moving the zoom my tires touch the grey track again and exiting the banked the right tires are quite full on the grey track (I have also lost speed by that) .However I'm waiting for CAS last decision again, he is the Boss. I know that I didn't gain advantage by that but you know, I like to be clean.

Nov 14

  • Duplode
    A late start, but at least I get to overtake "THC" while it is still possible to do so :tongue:
  • Cas
    I just reactivated the site. It had been deactivated because I forgot to log in to the client's area for a month. Well, I never needed to. I was always just getting to the CPanel. Anyway... Marco, I do see what you mean, but I believe the red border is indeed part of the track because it's being looked at from directly overhead. I remember Paleke's championship and if I'm not mistaken, in the open corners, it was OK to drive on the read and white borders. This is something similar. It would be terrible not to validate this fantastic time. Besides, in others replays I've received, I have accepted speeding up on purpose at the pipe entrance, because the car was on the track, so it wouldn't be fair to not take your replay as valid.
  • Marco
    Ok :smiley: I was running thinking to what could be in GAR but this is your race and if your rules accept pipe speedup, i can understand that you have accepted my lap too :smiley:).thank you

Nov 15

  • Marco
    R4I. I run a 1:20.50 and a 1:20.70 but my objective was the 1:18. I unluckely missed a 1.17.60 at the last jump. :smiley:

Nov 16

  • Cas
    For NoRH? :O That'd be a really amazing lap! This track is too hard for me to keep on improving the NoRH.
  • Marco
    Yes NORH

Nov 17

  • Marco
    R4I - Looking for the 1:18, I have run a clean 1:19.50. I was not satisfied about the 1:20.10 with the tires out of the banked road so this satisfied me much more. I'm still not using the tunnel speedup, no need tricks :smiley:)). It was a nice but not super first part and probably this is the main reason why i have pushed more on the last part gaining a good result. With NORH it's difficult to push all the race at 100% especially because you are scared to lose a good lap at the very end and this means lose precious time !!! I will still try for the 1:18 but it becomes always more difficult :smiley:)) . I think that 10% between NORH and RH is good but for my point of view there will be need also of a car bonus in the sense that drive fast a Delta is surely easier than drive fast an Indy.Maybe 10% + 2% or 3%.

Nov 18

  • FinRok
    Marco! This starts to sound like you are spending your life for NoRH!
  • Cas
    Car goes off track at 1:20!!! Ha, ha! Just kidding, of course, it doesn't count after crossing the finish line :tongue: Yeah, Marco, you really like NoRH. I think I should implement a system to handle the two racing styles. But for a competition, I would need to develop a system to verify NoRH. I have an idea of how to do it.
  • Cas
    What would guys want after the R4I is finished? Check the post: After Race For Immortality
  • Marco
    I have to stop racing...you are continuing to keep me here with immortality, race for hero, the best racer ever etc.etc.
  • Marco
    it's not me that I like NORH ... it's you that like RH :smiley:
  • Cas
    It's true, RH is not the natural way to play Stunts. When I first got to a tournament (WSC), I was kind of annoyed by RH, but the problem it's that you can never be sure about NoRH. In the community, there's plenty of gentlemen, but there have also been cheaters... some of which don't even give their real names. We can play NoRH, but until we have a pretty good verification system, we can't evaluate it with the same rigour as RH... especially put together!
  • Marco
    Yes i know, i m joking .anyway this is the main reason why i always record my real time norh gaming session.i have a 1.19.45 but i wait to upload .i run a couple of time a day and still looking for 1.18.it s possible

Nov 20

  • Marco
    WOW !!!
  • Marco
    Where is Renato !!??
  • Marco
    I love how, after the race ends, no one speak but me because of the quiet...
  • Zak McKracken
    quiet replays published, the rest coming later!
  • Duplode
    Congratulations Marco! If nothing else, at least I made sure your quiet replay wasn't superfluous :smiley:
  • Cas
    Amazing, Marco, congrats! Great replay! :smiley:

Nov 21

  • Marco
    When I met this site last year, I never thought that I could win a RH race.I saw that i was good to be a rookie of these rules but , To be honest, I was quite sure that i could not be able to win a NORH too. Regarding NORH I have discovered that i could win at the begginning of the year when the GAR championship started and great racers joined sometimes it but, regarding RH, I still continue to think that it's not possible for me to win against Renato and Duplode . So , why I won the last 3 RH races ? Have you given up because the championship basically is ended or what ? This my c184 replay is old from the very beginning of the race, I run the Bliss without taking care so much. Recently I have seen that I missed almost 1 second in the first part that i could add to the dinal laptime but I have no time to re-run. Then ?
  • Shoegazing Leo
    Hi, people! I couldn't improve because I almost took part in the race of immortality. After five days in hospital with pneumonia, I'm back.
  • Marco
    Oh Leo, I hope you are fine now !!!

Nov 22

  • Cas
    Leo! Hope you're feeling better! How come you got pneumonia? :O In R4I, you still have another week left.

Nov 24

  • Zak McKracken
    All, likely the new track will only start during the weekend. Not really an issue, as the 4 weeks can easily extend into the December holiday season. Stay tuned!
  • Marco
    So I have a new record, most days in first position after the end of the race

Nov 25

  • Marco
    I think that my left front tire saved my 1:18.40. If Cas confirms, it would be not bad as a Bliss NORH laptime.
  • Cas
    Ah!! At most zoom levels, it might be OK, but there's a zoom at which you have grass between the car and the track @0:59.95. At other zoom levels, while this does not happen, there is a connection between the tires and the pavement, but the tires are not actually "on" the pavement, but rather "immediately by" the pavement. Can you confirm you see this?
  • Marco
    Well my friend, you know, I'm a honest italian :smiley:. Duplode explained me how to check the OWOOT.Press F3 , all up and then 3 to the right, default zoom. I remember that there s a car with the left tires out of the chassis and the right inside the chassis, graphic bug but Duplode declared valid an old my norh lap because the fake left tires touched the track so I have understood that if tire pixel touch the track , it's ok. Well you have declared valid a my bliss norh lap in which my tires at default zoom were on the white and red side of the banked road without touching the track. That part white and red part is vertical and it's not a bump, so I considered my tires out of the track. Then i have run again because i was not ok with that lap. In this lap, the default zoom, show a tire pixel to touch the track, so I considered it valid. All the zoom levels show at least one tire to touch the ground except one so I considered it valid. But you are the boss and if you will decide to do not allow this lap , I will accept your decision :smiley:.
  • Cas
    I checked that spot with F3, all up, 3 to the right and yes, one wheel does touch the pavement. Notice that if you don't don't do the 3 to the right or if you just do one or two, it does not touch. I think I can consider it valid because there is a precedence, as you say, of the rule being applied this way and I know how hard it is to race this track NoRH. Besides, you're not really taking any shortcut and your speed wouldn't change significantly if you did it again. So I'll make it valid. All these things are very useful, because they help me learn in which aspects I have to strengthen the verification process. Next track, I will have a very, very clear set of rules :tongue:
  • Marco
    Send the replay to Duplode for another opinion please at this point

Nov 26

  • Cas
    Sent! Don't worry, though. You have a valid point here.
  • Marco
    You know , i was not here in the years of the owoot. I didn t participate to those races . you know much better than me. The rason tha i didn t search speedup or that this a hard norh race is not good reason in my mind to keep this lap valid if it s not. There s need of a commission :smiley:))wait for duplode too, who others?
  • Duplode
    Hi, I'm here :smiley: Summarising my reply to Cas: (1) If we use the "standard" camera angle (default zoom, all up, 3 to the right), at 59.95 the front left wheel is not on the track, as there is no overlap between tire and track (as I understand it, touching without overlap does not count as on the track). (2) In this race, I believe it would be fair to accept the replay, as the R4I rules do not mention which camera angle should be used, and there are angles in which there is overlap (e.g. default zoom, all up, 6 to the right).
  • Marco
    Thanks dup...ok very bad :smiley:, it s not valid at this point. :smiley:)cas can you recover the previous 1.19.50 or 1.19.45 that i have uploaded few minutes before?
  • Marco
    But have you checked from the front and rear lower to track view? This could be the best way to see the lower part of the tire .i m out of home, i will check later
  • Marco
    Wow , this is a very strange situation. Placing the camera completely down , all down and then looking the car from rear or from the front, the left tires are on the track also if you move the view one to the left or one to the right. With the default view completely zooming out the cars seems inside, completely zooming in, the left rear seems in. To be honest i don't know because it 's true , there several view where the tires are on the grass and several were they are on or next to track. To be honest I thought that the front and the rear view could confirm that it was a not valid lap but , they didn't confirm that . Please you decide but keep it valid only if you think that one tire could be on track and not only because i didn't speedup or it's difficult to run a norh here. 1.19.50 is a nice lap for me ... I don't think that is so easy for the world to run under 1:20 here. What do you think Dup and what's your laptime?
  • Cas
    I agree with Duplode. The thing is, Stunts is not known for being realistic and different cameras give very different results, so depending on the view, the replay is valid, almost valid or not valid at all. There are three possible approaches to this, in my opinion. 1- use a fixed camera position to define what's valid and what's not, no matter what is seen by other cameras; 2- make the replay valid whenever at least one camera view from the top shows it as valid; 3- make the replay invalid whenever at least one camera view from the top shows it as invalid. Which of these we use, has not been specified, so we can make a decision now. Since no other racer has had this problem before on this race, it will still be fair.
  • Cas
    In this case, my personal opinion (and Duplode agrees) is that it is better to accept the replay than not to accept it. In future races, I will surely stick to one camera view, following the standards of older Stunts tournaments. If you would prefer to change the replay and you have another new one to post, I can remove this one so you can upload that one. The previous one is also available.
  • Marco
    One fixed cam is probably the best choice or if zooming from the top more view are valid than invalid it could be good. Otherwise not. Anyway owoot means a tire on or over the track ...i have red duplode post about overlap but the term "over" can means also that the top of the tire , overlap speaking, could be valid. :smiley:. When the tires are not visible on covered cars the chassis is the core business.for my point of every parte of the car that is on ,over or next to the track let the race valid
  • Marco
    But the race will finish tomorrow night or still all monday?
  • Marco
    Sorry cas i red now your second post regarding what i prefer.if in your next races this replay will be not valid, it must be removed.otherwise it s ok.using the fixed cam explained me by duplode, the front left tire touch the track , maybe not on but surely over.:)let me know. I did a 1.18.30 but i was unluckely out by one pixel on the fixed cam...then i have several 1.19.
  • Marco
    Zak i noticed on the minifaq that you have seen stunts running on an ibm xt.well it s not a 8086, it s a 8088 4.7 mhz.don t know hiw it could start stunts but it was probably only very very slow.the 8086 was used by our italian olivetti m24 in 1984

Nov 27

  • Cas
    Uhm... well, for future tracks, I think it would be better "not" to accept wheel by the track. It has to be on or over, meaning an overlap has to be visible in the top-down projection for the default zoom and rotation. But because we had not specified this now, then I don't think it's wrong to take this one as valid for this race. The race will continue until 00:00 UTC of 29 November, that is, 28 November is included; it's the last day. And yes, I confirm. XTs had 8088 microprocessors, which were 8bit bus based versions of the 8086, therefore slower, even though they had come up later. Anyway... I remember having played Stunts on a 286. It was playable, but not smooth. On an XT, it must have been really uncomfortable.
  • Cas
    I added a countdown clock
  • Marco
    Hi my friend...sorry but considering that stunts camera views are weird i think that it makes confusion as it did here to use to many views to be sure.and this will be necessary if you decide that the track must be under tires because you cannot establish this from a top fixed view.a track pixel could be under your tire if it is next to track. In the past i have also seen to accept a lap where tire has only a pixel angle that touch a grass pixel angle.personally i would choose a fixed top cam that is the one always used and if stunts shows a contact, this s good.it s the easier way considering that we are not talking of things that could change the lap time. A pixel in or a pixel out cannot change the lap time.i didn t consider valid my tire on the banked in the previous lap but here i consider valid this one .i whatched also front and rear views and i have understood that is not possible be sure of our feeling .
  • Duplode
    For future races: I believe the fine print of the OWOOT rules is relatively unimportant as long as the rules are unambiguous and easy to apply. That's why choosing a fixed angle and using this angle to define what "on the track" and "over the track" are is a good idea. A centred top-down projection (as in the "standard" angle) is a good choice of camera angle because it is symmetrical (and so there aren't big differences between e.g. left corners and right corners) and not much affected by perspective and graphical artefacts.
  • Marco
    Yes but how to define if the tire is on or over for real or only next to track from tip view? Well fir this reason i think that the best solution is to discard lap where there s a clear green line of pixels beteween tire and track.
  • Duplode
    What I would do in such cases was projecting the curvature of the track under the tire according to the visible parts of the track immediately before and after the tire, counting pixels and using a screen ruler in difficult cases. If that was genuinely inconclusive, I would consider the replay valid. Combined with the "standard" camera angle, that generally well. Now that I have written this explanation, though, I am beginning to think there is a decent case in support of your "green line rule" on the grounds of simplicity. What do you think about that, Cas?
  • Marco
    I disagree because it becomes to much difficult to establish. I agree that it could seem that the tires are full on grass especially because zooming in and out from this view sometimes it is the rear tire to touch and sometime it is the front but ... if you place down the camera , all down, you will see that there is almost half tire on the track, how it's this possible if the tires are on the grass?. This clearly means that stunts camera is weird and need a concrete and easy rule otherwise it becomes like soccer , an opinion decide if you are in or out . I'm sure when I say that the best way is that if a pixel of the car touch a pixel of the track from a fixed cam position , that's valid otherwise invalid, no matter if the car is not on the track or it's on the track for real. No possibility to disagree,it's the most untouchable way to judge and, anyway, you are so close to the track in this conditions that this could be the very best, fast , easy rule for everybody. Maybe I would think if insert the possibility to keep valid situation where you don't gain advantage ,like exiting on the outside, to permit to weaker racers to run NORH... but this would improve the check effort and opinion situations.
  • Cas
    Uhm... I think that is really a very, very good point. Of course, the logical thing would be "on or over" meaning some overlapping must exist, but like Marco says, whether it does exist or not is just a virtual concept, because only one pixel is on the screen at any given point every moment. When the road goes straight, it's easy to tell if there would be overlap, but for curves or worse, chicanes, it may become quite hard. I now believe "contact" should be considered valid to avoid controversies, as long as only one camera rotation and angle is used. I think we should use Duplode's definition for that.
  • Marco
    Yes i think is the fast and best and quite honest. All up 3 right default zoom... if there s a complete 1 pixel grass line you are out otherwise it s good
  • Marco
    I forgot to say a point that I have applied on the GAR and i have paid attention driving on Bliss too. I suggest to keep valid Only the grey track surface, as for the grass keep not valid the bumps, or every other things placed on the side of the track ... So to conclude, the best way is ... Fixed cam , if the fixed cam shows a contact between the car (tires or chassis) and the grey road (one pixel is enough also if touch only the angle and not the entire side , that's valid , if the fixed cam shows something else between tires and the track road grey surface, that's not valid . All the other cam views and angle are not important.

Nov 28

  • Marco
    Please short track for december...it s christmas.the last one was extra long
  • Zak McKracken
    don't worry :smiley:

Nov 29

  • Cas
    Well... R4I is closing in 40 minutes. Thanks to all who have participated. Duplode, both replay updates you made have been verified. If anybody else wants to post, I'll be here till the closing time :smiley:
  • Cas
    Well... R4I is closing in 40 minutes. Thanks to all who have participated. Duplode, both replay updates you made have been verified. If anybody else wants to post, I'll be here till the closing time :smiley:
  • Cas
    Alright! :smiley: R4I is closed now. Duplode's last-minute replay verified :tongue: All replays are now public! I will be making the new tournament's site operational later this evening and I'll give you guys the link. Thank everyone so much for participating!
  • Duplode
    Thank you Cas for running R4I, and onward to the new competition! :smiley: Also, congratulations Marco for the excellent NoRH lap.
  • Marco
    Lose a race by 0.00.05 is always sad :smiley:,but I have already tried this emotion with Akoos :smiley:. Anyway I closed my RH run with a corkscrew speedup while Duplode was unlucky to do not find it otherwise it would be a higher gap. Then Duplode absolutely deserves the RH victory. I have already seen his lap and I can only congrat because it is simply clean and beautiful. Knowing the final RH laptime, I'm very satisfied because my NORH laptime reached the goal to stay inside the 10% gap from the RH result with any formula, 1:18.30 but also 1.19:45. RH/100*110 or NORH/100*90. So who is the Immortal of all the Immortals ? :smiley:
  • Cas
    New tournament site at: http://www.dimioca.com/r4k Working on a messaging system :smiley:
  • Cas
    Messaging system ready too!
  • Marco
    Hi My great friend Cas, I have seen the new tournament rules. I like very much your attitude for fast tracks and "kick" is a very nice new but I'm clearly disappointed about the decision to establish basically a new RH tournament so that the NORH, without advantage or a 2nd scoreboard, is completely out. But this is only a personal opinion and I understand the "difficult to check" point as I have understood ZAKStunts. But for the immortal event, We have talked days about granting %, special sidescore, we have analized NORH replays several times, pixel by pixel ...so that I honestly thought that NORH was clearly entered the competition against RH . For this reason I focused on NORH while my RH is from the very beginning of the race and never tried to be improved . I have taken seriously this special event and I have recorded the real time sessions of all my best laps. If i could know that this was finally a RH race, I would never spent so much time, at least not running NORH. Running both RH and NORH I perfectly know that MARCO NORH must be 10 times in front of MARCO RH considering skills, effort so i 'm very sad to see that, running under 1.20, is in 4th position without a place on the immortal stars. :smiley:)).
  • Cas
    Marco, both RH and NoRH results will be immortalised in Bliss. Furthermore, I do want to give a handicap in favour of NoRH, but first I need to develop a method of verification. Do you think splitting the highscore table is better? We could do that instead. On the other hand, I don't want to give up the RH option, because many racers won't participate unless they can use RH.
  • Cas
    PM me in the forum and we'll discuss on how to implement a good NoRH verification system. I had a project to do just that back in 2009, but I had to abandon it. I'm a better programmer now :tongue:

Nov 30

  • Marco
    If i won both i would ask for a single score with norh %granted but...i lost the rh so the right way it s a double sidescore .you know what is and what is norh

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